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May. 7th, 2009 @ 01:23 pm (no subject)
"In 2006, the latest year of record, 56,326 Americans died from influenza strains in the United States according to the Centers for Disease Control, and $6.1 billion was spent by the central government on prevention and treatment. (Sidebar: Comparably, in 2006 there were 12,113 AIDS-related deaths and $13.7 billion dollars for U.S. HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment -- that's twice the spending on a totally preventable disease which kills less than one fourth of the number of citizens who die from the flu.)
The Patriot Post: Alexander's Essay, MAy 7,2009
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From:pathia
Date:May 7th, 2009 06:04 pm (UTC)
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A large disproportionate amount of the deaths are elderly, who cannot fight the flu. Also this is comparing a life-long disease with a 1week long disease.

Preventable? Mostly, totally within the power of those that have it? No, not always.

I have a friend who was thrown in jail for loitering (We were homeless at the time). She was raped in jail overnight by an HIV positive man and is now infected herself.
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From:pogo101
Date:May 7th, 2009 06:17 pm (UTC)
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Any case of either disease is terrible, but:

- Although a TYPICAL flu is "1 week long," Ralph's stats were about FATAL cases only. It's unfair of you to add all the non-fatal cases into the mix. (If we're going to do that, then let's include the NUMBERS OF those non-fatal flu cases, which are probably over 1 million per year.)

- Is an elderly life (or an infant one -- the other major flu-victim group) somehow less valuable than the life of a typical AIDS victim, often someone in mid-adulthood? I cannot discern why, otherwise, you'd point out the age of the victims of the flu. (Even if the old are to be viewed as less worth-saving than the young, remember that infants make up another huge part of the victim pie-chart for flu.)

- Which is more preventable in a typical case, flu or AIDS? I submit that most, although surely not all, AIDS cases result from behavior that is widely known to be extremely risky, such as barebacking, needle sharing, etc. The rare cases of AIDS contracted despite "good behavior," such as from rape or blood transfusions, are the exceptions that prove the rule. In contrast, most flu cases are not nearly so easily preventable, unless one wishes to live a Howard Hughes-like hermit existence, although one can reduce the odds through hygiene.

AIDS gets far more government (.. and private, but that's not for me to bitch about) funding than does most any other disease, including fatal and communicable ones, on a per-patient or per-fatality basis -- particularly the biggest killers like cancer, flu, malaria, etc.
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From:crazyredemu
Date:May 8th, 2009 04:39 am (UTC)
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Your female friend was raped in jail by a guy... I dont know of any jails that are co-ed so how did that happen? and if so that is a lawsuit even I would support
Costs of quarantine - (Anonymous) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Expand
Math - (Anonymous) - Expand
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From:brannickthebard
Date:May 8th, 2009 04:48 am (UTC)
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I'm sorry, I can't help but scratch my head here and wonder what kind of progressive jail you were thrown into that houses males and females in the same cells for your friend to be raped?

I've never heard of such a place!

But, more to the point, that sounds like your friend should be set for life thanks to the pay out from the civil suit, right?
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From:quintessentialp
Date:May 8th, 2009 04:42 am (UTC)
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This probably isn't the best way to contact you, but it's the first one I saw...

I usually enjoy your comics, and even when I disagree, I can usually respect your opinion. But if you'll pardon my language, what the HELL was up with the last Camp Calomine?

Yes, that woman's reaction was totally typical of shoppers/customers. But it has NOTHING to do with her being female OR estrogen. At the business I work for, I get a fair selection of the customer complaint e-mails and, yes, many of them exhibit that logic, but it's Richard, Gary, or Robert just as often as it is Susan or Christine.

After your many espousals of Christian values, I really wouldn't have thought you'd use a comic to promote misogyny. I'm disappointed.
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From:son_of_thoth
Date:May 8th, 2009 12:25 pm (UTC)
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So am I, as I thought the comic was funny, insightful and right on the money, as they usually are, and it worries me that you miss the humor.
Coming from a family of six aunts and over a dozen female cousins that live locally, plus several long tortuous years in retail and customer service, I've lived that comic many a time.
It still stuns me that you can give me a list of a hundred items, and I can be in and out of the local meg-o-mall in about an hour, give the same list to my female cousin or my aunt, and you'll be lucky to see them before the month is out. I get in, grab what I need and get out, she has to look at ten items, that are usually EXACTLY the same in every way, and then spend an hour trying to decide which she likes better, only to not get any of them on the hope that she might see them in another store.
Misogyny?? I have a bad memory sometimes, but did Charles ever say he hated women? Once again, any little criticism is taken to the extreme and proves the point the strip was making.
Example: I was dating a this girl a year or so back and during a moonlight walk she decided to a little man bashing, telling me how typical it was that all men care about it ass and cars. Thusly, I hit her back saying that women shouldn't be allowed to vote, on the basis that they feel rather than think, proven when I was working in retail and walked into a conversation between two middle aged women that John Kerry would get her vote, because he had better hair than George Bush. (Now anyone, male, female or otherwise, who would use that statement to advance a political candidate shouldn't be allowed to vote, or breed as far as I'm concerned, but I was ribbing her for a little fun.) Result? She flipped Sh!$, yelled loud enough to wake the dead, then spent the rest of our walk in total silence and tried to push me into a small stream we walked by.
So, are women more emotional and irrational then men? You bet ya. Because men and women are different, always have been, always will be. God made us that way, it's his design, we think different, we react different, and don't tell anyone I told you, but even our bodies are different! I know that will hit some as a shocker.
So RH, good job on pointing out the king is naked! It nice to see someone cinch up the jock strap and say what’s obvious. Oh, and in the spirit of pointing out the obvious, I hope B. Hussein Obama fails too.
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From:crazyredemu
Date:May 9th, 2009 10:19 am (UTC)
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I veiwed the comic as being dubble sided she was making a bad buy and he was flipping out over it, being just as "emotional" or more so then her, I also think this comic might be based on a real life incident and thats what he wanted to say to the crazy lady
Also my mom is the type to flip at those type of people aswell, but she also likes to buy in bulk and would have wanted both
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From:nefaria
Date:May 8th, 2009 12:44 pm (UTC)
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Eh, I suppose the Federal government shouldn't be funding disease research, but if I had to cut the budget, medical funding would be among the last things I'd cut. As someone pointed out, it usually does save the country money in the long run; a vaccine is much cheaper than long-term medical care. That makes it a good investment, there are so many other bad investments that should get the ax first.
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From:pathia
Date:May 8th, 2009 01:50 pm (UTC)
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Apparently, long term investment stratagems only work when you're not talking about something that will benefit fags.
From:johnnybigguns
Date:May 8th, 2009 02:41 pm (UTC)
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And apparently, more money should go to HIV than any other disease because HIV funding benefits fags.
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From:nefaria
Date:May 8th, 2009 09:06 pm (UTC)
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My you're rude, putting words in my mouth to make me look like a bigot.

The government doesn't owe you a living, that's your job.
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From:gothelittle
Date:May 8th, 2009 09:07 pm (UTC)
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Try rereading the guy's post again...

"...if I had to cut the budget, medical funding would be among the last things I'd cut. As someone pointed out, it usually does save the country money in the long run; a vaccine is much cheaper than long-term medical care."

Now let me pick up a line from one of your previous posts:

"There is actual promise in an HIV vaccine, it doesn't mutate rapidly, in fact despite it being around for decades there are only 2 strains."

Now from what you just said:

"Apparently, long term investment stratagems only work when you're not talking about something that will benefit fags."

When and how did he mention sexual orientation?
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From:rhjunior
Date:May 9th, 2009 02:00 am (UTC)
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What a cheap, foolish, and pathetic strawman.

From:(Anonymous)
Date:May 12th, 2009 09:06 am (UTC)
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I've heard better arguments from grade-schoolers arguing on the playground. Living proof that being a perverted d**k-chewer kills off brain cells.
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From:niall_shapero
Date:May 11th, 2009 05:24 am (UTC)

Statistics.

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The most recent findings (2006) are as follows:

Number of deaths from Influenza and Pneumonia, 2006: 56,326

Age-adjusted death rate for Influenza and Pneumonia (deaths per 100,000 population): 18.8 (down from 21.3 in 2005)

However, influenza by itself is not as deadly. Here, the 2006 numbers show that pneumonia is the factor behind most of the deaths in the category Influenza and Pneumonia.

Number of deaths in 2006 from influenza: 846

Number of deaths in 2006 from pneumonia: 55,477

This from http://nchspressroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/data-on-deaths-due-to-influenza/

This would lead me to believe that the number of deaths from flu alone is 846, not 56,326 which is the deaths from the flu AND pneumonia. Finding this data took me about five minutes. Given the apparent inaccuracy in "The Patriot Post: Alexander's Essay, May 7, 2009", I would suggest that any conclusions drawn based on that data would also be suspect.



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From:calliopeva
Date:May 11th, 2009 09:15 am (UTC)

Re: Statistics.

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But would those who died from pneumonia have developed it without first having influenza? If not, then it was really the cause of death.

JoAnn in VA
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From:rhjunior
Date:May 11th, 2009 11:25 am (UTC)

Re: Statistics.

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Balderdash. You quibble and hair-split in hopes of obfuscating the unpleasant reality evident to all who read this--- that we as a society spend more money on a venereal disease than we do on a far more deadly--- and far less discriminatory--- killer.

We are less interested in actually saving lives from disease than we are in pandering to the needs of a morally perverse demographic who demand that we pretend that what has happened to them is not their own damned fault, and that we bankrupt ourselves in a futile effort to somehow eliminate all the negative consequences of their perversity. Forget influenza, polio, or smallpox, If we treated AIDS with even the minimal preventative measures that we use for chicken pox, it would be virtually eliminated within a generation--- but that will never happen because it would mean putting responsibility back on the shoulders of the ones spreading it.
From:bdragon660
Date:May 12th, 2009 05:24 pm (UTC)

Re: Statistics.

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Well, on that note, HIV/AIDS has never actually "killed" anyone either. It just cripples the immune system, allowing other infections and viruses to kill the person. More often than not, I'd imagine, the common cold.
From:paddyfool
Date:May 13th, 2009 08:35 am (UTC)

The big problem with those statistics

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The reason there were only 12,113 AIDS-related deaths in the US in 2006 is because many people with HIV is that many people are now living on treatment. Having had an AIDS-defining low CD4 count or other clinical condition, people start antiretroviral treatment and most get reasonably well again; currently, nearly half of all HIV+ people in the USA are living with AIDS. A lot more people died before decent treatment was available - the cumulative estimated number of AIDS deaths through to 2007 in the USA was 583,298 (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#lwa). This treatment, however, and the various tests required to monitor infections, costs money. The big prevention schemes, designed to stop multiple potential routes of infection (sexual, injecting drug use, mother-to-child and medical) also cost money. Influenza control, on the other hand, involves much less expense, since pretty much all you can do is give old people their flu shots and hope you've picked the right strains, and educate people about coughing/sneezing into tissues, washing their hands, etc., having a surveillance system to watch for new strains, and treat any pneumonia that may arise from a bad case of flu.
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From:rhjunior
Date:May 13th, 2009 03:40 pm (UTC)

Re: The big problem with those statistics

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One: these treatments only delayed the inevitable.... and lack of quarantine merely guaranteed that MORE people were infected, and will have to be put on "treatment", in the future....

No "lucky parachute" is a substitute for responsible behavior. Not quarantining a lethal, incurable, contagious disease, regardless of how "hard" or "easy" it is to infect, is irresponsible.
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From:kire_duhai
Date:May 14th, 2009 09:39 pm (UTC)
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Okay, just because this discussion makes me think about it...

http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/Pandemic-2.html

I know it's just a flash game, and not completely realistic, but it might give some insight on the spread of diseases to those here who are *completely* ignorant.

...And it's fun, too.

-Kire Du'Hai
From:paddyfool
Date:May 16th, 2009 10:46 pm (UTC)

Also worth a look

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http://www.gameshot.org/?id=3480 (although level 10 seems about equally frustrating as trying to infect Madagascar in Pandemic 2).
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From:gothelittle
Date:May 18th, 2009 04:53 pm (UTC)

Re: Also worth a look

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Yes, my husband noticed that particular inanity. "Madagascar. Go figure. OMG! SOMEBODY SNEEZED IN CHINA! CLOSE THE BORDERS!"
From:ext_188372
Date:May 17th, 2009 02:19 pm (UTC)

Why the quarantine argument doesn't hold water.

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Quarantine of AIDS victims in the United States would not save the AIDS research money quoted in the OP, and would in fact cost many times more. Imprisonment is an expensive proposition, but even barring that (and barring that could be done; if you're going to sentence them to death in prison without cure, then one might as well shoot them and get it over with; the two are morally equivalent and the second is cheaper), quarantine would require cutting off international travel and trade.

U.S. exports in 2008 totaled $1.377 trillion. That's trillion, with a T. Cutting off trade would remove that market, unemploy all the workers who serve that market, and send both the U.S. and world economies straight into the toilet. The up-front expense is a full order of magnitude larger than the expense of AIDS treatment, and the consequential expenses are incalculable. Claiming that quarantine would save money is ludicrous on its face.

I fully expect this will be deleted just like the last two times it was pointed out. Again, I pray some of your readers see it first.
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From:rhjunior
Date:May 17th, 2009 05:33 pm (UTC)

Re: Why the quarantine argument doesn't hold water.

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Lord, if you dedicated some of this energy to doing something useful instead of spamming my blog....

"Death in prison without a cure." Melodrama much? Already addressed twenty posts ago.[/b] Being prevented from contact with the uninfected is far from "death in prison," and nobody once suggested STOPPING searching for a cure. Stopping the spread first in fact would aid the search for a cure as it would help prevent new strains from surfacing, and it would limit the number of people needing treated when the cure was found.

The fact that the disease continues to spread clearly demonstrates that there are too many who carry it who won't behave responsibly without being deliberately made to.... the fact that they caught the disease in the first place demonstrates that. A mandatory quarantine--- one no more grievous than the one they conducted for polio in a previous generation--- would save millions of lives.

Will this be implemented? No, of course not, never. Because of people like you.

Now, you stupid, irresponsible, arrogant, account-abusing horse's rear sphincter, since the basement fungus in the crevasses of your gray matter renders you too ignorant to get the message when you were BANNED, get out of my blog and don't come back.